UPDATE: **SOLD** Was Make Offer.
Robert’s selling his beautiful 1960 wagon. Learn more and see more pics at the Old Willys Forum (you will need to become a member to view the ad) and contact him through that site. He welcomes any and all questions. If it doesn’t sell, the vehicle will go to Bring a Trailer eventually and I’ll set the reserve at $23K which is slightly less than what I have in expenses in it. I’m open to reasonable offers, but I’m not desperate to sell it.
“Original drivetrain; 226 Super Hurricane that starts on first crank and purrs like a kitten, valves adjusted 4k ago w/ all new gaskets and nuts/studs. Pertronix converted original disty with Pertronix coil, new wires and plugs; “master craftsman ranch” rebuit Carter carb with 2 in line filters and check valve; new Walck’s 5 row US made radiator and shroud, brand new complete exhaust pipe and muffler; recently replaced water pump.
Recently gone through T-90 that doesn’t jump out of 2nd, D18 T-case with recent I shaft bearings, Overdrive (I think Herm 30%); D44/D25 4.27 axles with Warn front hubs (I will be installing new knuckle seals); brand new Wheelsmith 15×6 steel “stock” style powder coated wheels with brand new LT235/75r15 Falken Rubitrek tires; Ross steering with new repop steering wheel and horn button (horn works) that look great; fully cleaned, painted and lubed “no bounce” speedo/gauges; brakes are “good”, parking brake works perfectly; I replaced the springs with new, delrin slider leaves that ride very nicely but are not “Moab” rated; recent custom interior with color co-ordinated panels and front bucket leather seats, stock rear seats with new upholstery, perfect headliner with no sags or bags in silver fabric; body is in “very good” shape with recent rust mitigation: cowl and floor panels replaced, door bottoms solid with primer; body sides have been insulated with sound deadener and open cell foam, interior wood slats are “excellent”, glass is all good but front windshield needs gasket, recent paint job in metallic Orange and Silver; all chrome including full over rider is new and perfect, all latches and locks work perfectly and a single key for all 3 locks and ignition, window regulators work perfectly as do the wing windows and latches; I am in the process of replacing the side window slider channels, drains are clear and frames are rust free; I am also in the process of rewiring where necessary with new headlights, parking lights and LED tail lights with new lenses; new heater vent with new defroster hoses connected to refurb’d windshield vents, reconditioned heater and def controls; Sony FM CD stereo with 2 speakers.
NOTE: anywhere I use the term “recent” in the above, that means it was done by the previous owner just before I took possession in 2018.
The vehicle runs and drives nicely though the steering needs a solid go-through. There is still some minor rust at the rear inner tailgate hinge that has been treated with phosphoric acid, and though not structural it deserves to be mentioned. Fuel tank and sender are original and while they “work”, gauge is not accurate and the tank may need to be cleaned. As mentioned above, the front windshield needs a new gasket. And as mentioned, the springs are new but I did not replace the shocks. Wipers are basic 12 volt conversion motor.
what a beauty! This is where I want get my wagon to one day.
Amazing wagon. It’s a steal at that price.
How did you do all that work for slightly over 23k. Very nice wagon and it’s 226.
Beautiful wagon no doubt about it, but the money factor is really getting crazy these days. A restoration such as this is time consuming, could take years, with inflation and the crazy up & down vehicle market, it’s really a 50/50 preposition. just a toss of the dice.
A lot of this problem has to do with the big name collector car auctions, they drive prices and do not reflect the average person who enjoys the hobby.
Mike, i believe the pricing pressure goes beyond the auction houses (how many avg folks are really paying attention to those prices?). Vintage Jeeps in general have been increasing in popularity (beyond simple utilitarian uses) for a multitude of reasons. I believe the popularity of vintage Jeeps has increased, in part due to social media and websites like … ahem … ewillys. Folks can connect with other Jeep lovers more easily than ever.
Also, Parts of varying quality can be bought with the push of a button. And, those who can afford a shop, the tools, the parts and the time and money to play with Jeeps these days, generally speaking, can afford to pay more, adding pricing pressure.
Model “T”s and other collector cars have seen the same trends over the years, but are farther on the life cycle curve. I expect vintage Jeeps will follow the same paths as their predecessors.
A cool, fun, collectable (and potentially an appreciating) car/truck for $20k + or -, is a steal.
Today pickups are $75k. A new V-8 Mustang converting is $60k. An entry level compact SUV like an Escape, Tucson or RAV4, is $40k with options.
So in a word, OUR OLD values, are not really applicable.
A “stand out from the crowd” toy like a Jeep is worth $20k all day long. Look at the values of older puckups.
Now, no one is likely to use these as daily drivers (heck I used by ’77 CJ-5 as a daily driver between 1998-2004, but hey, that was 20 years ago), but with a Jeep you can at least use it for more things than going to the Dairy Queen and taking it to car shows.
JohnB, I must be missing something here, what I hear you saying is that these high prices are justified. You may be speaking from a position of wealth, and as a result support auto makers in charging $60 grand for a pick up, but in reality it is pricing many of us out of the market.
John, as a consumer, you should be in favor of lower prices, not higher.
Where does it all end, the rich get rich and the poor get poorer.
The mentality of what you are supporting is flawed, at some point in time the materialistic mindset will catch up with each and every one of us, a nation of haves and have nots.
As for myself, I was priced out of the market a long time ago, so were the many independent businessmen who sold used Jeep parts, done in by the mega bucks corporations that today dominate the market place.
I am saddened by the fact the EWILLYS has in recent times has become more about lifestyle and less about Willys Jeeps. Just my opinion, not trying to ruffle any feathers. Maybe time to move on. Peace & well being.
Mike,
Thanks for thoughts. Here more of my own thoughts:
Let me assure you that eWillys has definitely changed. As I explained in my new year’s 1/1/2022 post (http://www.ewillys.com/2022/01/01/happy-new-year-2022/), my life has shifted in important ways, which necessitated a shift in eWillys. I keep the site going because people still seem to still enjoy reading it, even in its abbreviated form. The days of long, insightful, new content is likely over. Unearthing new content took hours and lots of research. I also believe folks have unearthed most of the interesting stuff by now.
In the absence of unearthing interesting old content is the sharing of news on what folks are doing with their vehicles now (lifestyle is a fair word for it). But, as FB and other social media sites demonstrate, readers value that content as well. It interests them, informs them and motivates them on their own projects.
In regards to prices, I have done my best to share the range of prices over the years, to show near-junk stuff along with beautiful builds, like the wagon above. Unfortunately, as I have explained previously, the range of vintage jeeps simply isn’t there to share like it was a decade ago. I think the period between 2008 and roughly 2015 was a perfect time period for eWillys. So many vehicles hit the market that prices plummeted and deals abounded. That was likely a unique time period for the vintage jeep niche.
These days, the shifting market coupled with my life changes has resulted in eWillys being where it is.
Regarding prices, they are “higher” for sure. No doubt about it. And, the prices have priced folks out of the market. I have no doubt about that either.
But, are the prices “high” as you argue? I think that is debatable. For example, more than a decade ago a couple of us estimated that to build an MB from scratch, buying all new parts, would cost roughly $18,000. Add to that labor, and I believe the estimate was around $24k. Yet, a reasonably restored MB at the time was only fetching about $15k. So, the question is, was the market pricing the restored jeep fairly or was it undervaluing it?
I don’t believe there’s a right/wrong answer to that question, as a person’s personal circumstances (wealth, history with jeeps, etc) will color the response.
I also can’t predict what will happen with the current prices. The market continues to force prices upward, but if the commercial loan market collapses as some ‘experts’ think it will (due to the cost of or inability to refinance commercial loans), they believe it could launch another big recession, which will likely drive vintage jeep prices down. I guess we’ll see….
Best wishes and have a good weekend,
– Dave
Well-said, @Dave Eilers. Thanks for all that you do.
Back to the ad, this Wagon is a steal at that price.
Wow, an interesting range of thoughts here, wasn’t my Wagon’s intention to stir the pot, just a little mid century Jeep lust 😉
As far as “pricing” is concerned, I’ve heard from more than one enthusiast that the prices of old iron, and Jeeps in particular, have “priced” some folks out of the market. But as a friend of mine stated “the most expensive hobby you can have is a cheap Willys”. To that, there are plenty of inexpensive project Jeeps out there; but how long time wise and how much does one want to spend to achieve a safe, drive-able vehicle?
IMHO, Dave hits it on the head, Thank you sir!
Would love to answer any questions about the above Wagon as in what it needs, etc. FWIW, new knuckle seals are on, steering got some love and new 00 grease, and I’m in the process of getting some new wiring in to go with the new battery. And the new mid window slider stuff is all in. Got tons of pics for anyone interested. Thanks!
Mike
I’m all in favor of low oruces. I’m retired, so it’s not like my income is keeping up with inflation.I
Wow, I don’t know what I said for you to get the idea that I approve of, or an somehow behind, the current automotive pricing reality?
But, I’m a realist. As much as I would like to buy a ’69 Mach One for its MSRP of $4500 or a burger from McDonald’s at 19 cents, I know those days are over and aren’t coming back.
Remember, the “big three” and Wall Street investors aren’t making money when cars they sold 40 years ago sell for big/silly money today. The people making that money are regular guys who bought the right car and sold it at the right time.
I thought I made it pretty clear that I was just accepting the new price reality…as I said very clearly, “…Our old values are not really applicable”.
If my dad were around and learned what I paid for my house and my wife’s new car, he’d think I became a millionaire. Then again, when he worked in a well paid management job, he supported a family of four kids on about $15,000 a year.
Today in my state, A person working at the minimum wage will get $30,000 in 50 weeks.
And back in the ’80s, I swore I’d never pay more than $15,000 for a new car. Yeah…
I’m restoring a M38A1 and have spent good (some would say insane) money restoring it. I had to spend that kind of money because my restorer and paint guys won’t work for free. When I sell it, I’m going to TRY and get that money out of it.
Does that make me a bad guy in your eyes because I’ll want several times the price the government paid for it in 1955?
If you look at the overall old cars market, Jeeps are a relative bargain.
Not my doing, but it’s our reality.
one question- is it sold as of today?
Hi John,
The Old Willys Forum link was no longer active, so I expect the wagon sold. I’ve updated the post.
– Dave
Yes, it (sadly) sold. Would have loved to have kept it but not to be. It was quite a looker, and ran well. Needed a few things but then don’t we all? Hopefully the new owner does it right 🙂